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Kullanıcı Kulübü Mtl Kullanıcıları Kulübü

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Penodat v2 alan dostlarımız burda mı ? Ben aldım ama çok havadar , aynı zamanda tank hemen çıkabiliyor neden böyle oldu anlamış değilim. Svömesto ve gus serilerini uzun süre kullandım bu nasıl birşeydir anlamış değilim. Maalesef bu atomizer olmamış , deck değişimi isteyeceğim.
Ben alacaktım ama ilk satışa yetişemedim. İlk satışta fiyat 310tl idi ve duyduğuma göre sadece 2 gün içinmiş. Gün içerisinde haber vermeden bir kaç kez 10ar stok açtılar ama yetişemedim, saatlerce bilgisayar başında f5 yaptım ama bir türlü denk gelemedim. Sonra dediler fiyat 380tl oldu. Başlarım böyle işe dedim, vazgeçtim. Sonra ilk alanlar yavaştan yorum yazmaya başladılar. Her yazanda bir sıkıntı çıkınca iyi ki almamışım dedim. Sonra yüklendiler neden millete 310tl de bize 380tl diye, yine 310tl yaptılar fiyatı. Yine her yazan yok benimkinin deck yamuk, yok benimkinin baca kırık, sürekli bir işçilik hataları fotoğrafları derken ortalık iyice karıştı. Ben de bundan sonra bedava verseler almam dedim ve sayfaları takipten çıkardım. Penodat'ın sahibi Ramazan ustayı tanımam ama dediklerine göre çok düzgün bir insanmış ve müşterilerini mağdur etmemek için elinden geleni yaparmış. Atomizerin hem kutu içeriğine göre hemde malum devre göre fiyatı gayet uygun. Lakiiin! Bakın burası çokomelli! Maalesef kalitesi ve özellikle kalite kontrolü bakımından sınıfta kalmış. Umarım mağduriyetler giderilir ama giderilse bile, atomizer sorunsuz olsa bile ben artık bu sayfayı bir daha açmamak üzere kapadım. Umarım sizin de mağduriyetiniz bir an önce giderilir.
 
Ben alacaktım ama ilk satışa yetişemedim. İlk satışta fiyat 310tl idi ve duyduğuma göre sadece 2 gün içinmiş. Gün içerisinde haber vermeden bir kaç kez 10ar stok açtılar ama yetişemedim, saatlerce bilgisayar başında f5 yaptım ama bir türlü denk gelemedim. Sonra dediler fiyat 380tl oldu. Başlarım böyle işe dedim, vazgeçtim. Sonra ilk alanlar yavaştan yorum yazmaya başladılar. Her yazanda bir sıkıntı çıkınca iyi ki almamışım dedim. Sonra yüklendiler neden millete 310tl de bize 380tl diye, yine 310tl yaptılar fiyatı. Yine her yazan yok benimkinin deck yamuk, yok benimkinin baca kırık, sürekli bir işçilik hataları fotoğrafları derken ortalık iyice karıştı. Ben de bundan sonra bedava verseler almam dedim ve sayfaları takipten çıkardım. Penodat'ın sahibi Ramazan ustayı tanımam ama dediklerine göre çok düzgün bir insanmış ve müşterilerini mağdur etmemek için elinden geleni yaparmış. Atomizerin hem kutu içeriğine göre hemde malum devre göre fiyatı gayet uygun. Lakiiin! Bakın burası çokomelli! Maalesef kalitesi ve özellikle kalite kontrolü bakımından sınıfta kalmış. Umarım mağduriyetler giderilir ama giderilse bile, atomizer sorunsuz olsa bile ben artık bu sayfayı bir daha açmamak üzere kapadım. Umarım sizin de mağduriyetiniz bir an önce giderilir.
Söylediklerinizin hepsine süper derecede katılıyorum , ilk ve son yerli atomizer maceram burada son bulmaktadır.Deck değişecek sorun değil , kendisi aynı zamanda iyi bir esnaf , malının arkadasında sorun kalmayana dek sorunları çözeceğini söylüyor tebrik ederim.Umarım bir dahaki işlerinde başarılı olur.Arabada ve atomizerde alman işçiliğinden devam edicem. Bu arada deck değişince herhangi bir arkadaşa göndermek istiyorum istediği kadar kullanabilir hatta inceleme yaparsa detaylı forum için yararlı olacağını düşünüyorum ben beceremiyorum saygılar
 
Ekli dosyayı görüntüle 47946

Benimki de elime ulaştı, hava deliklerinde sıkıntı yok fakat pamuk yerleşim için açılan yuvalar gerçekten yivlere çok yakın, zedelememek için dikkatli çalışmak gerek.

2.5 çap 27ga kanthal sardım 0.87 ohm 16 watt'ta buharlıyorum. Kısa tank, 1mm afc ve en küçük delik,

Boğaz vurumu orta üstü, uzun tankla artacaktır muhtemelen ( aynı sarımla flashta daha yüksek vurum var, aynı sarımda hussar ile nerdeyse aynı vurum alıyorum ) ayrıca buharı nemli değil kuruya daha yakın.

Aroması Hussarın sanki çok az altında ( hussar zaten aroma olarak iyi bir atomizer o nedenle aroması ortanın üstü denilebilir ) flash ile nerdeyse aynı.

Likit dolumunda çok endişeliydim fakat beklediğim gibi olmadı, topcap'in bağlandığı oringleri biraz likitledim ve sonuna kadar sıkıca kapamadım, doldururken topcap'in üstündeki çentikleri ( driptipin altı ) tutarak likit dolum kapağını çevirip açıyorum. Şu ana kadar sorun yaşamadım ama şunu söyleyebilirim ne gerek vardı böyle bir tasarıma.

Açık renkli driptipi sevdim, bence dudak yapısına uygun yapılmış, konforlu. Siyah olanı kullanmadım bile..

Uzun tankı daha kullanmadım, diğer afc lerin varyasyonlarını denedikten sonra daha iyi yorum yapılabilir.

Policarbon tank çıkıcak gibi durmuyor fakat çok kolay çizilecek gibi, ayrıca tankı tutan oringler bir adet yerine guslardaki gibi 2 adet olsaydı hiçkimse eleştirmeyecekti.ayrıca likit dolum yüzüğü ve poikarbon tankın birleştiği yivlere çok dikkat edilmesi gerekiyor.

Kullandığım en sessiz atomizer diyemem fakat sesi hiç rahatsız etmeyecek kadar az. ( flash kullananlar azcık daha sesli bulabilir )



Notum ise bütün eksiklerine rağmen: kocaman bir 7.
Açıkçası hiçbir zaman ilk tercihim olacak bir tank değil fakat hemen satayım kurtulayım dediğim bir tank ta değil açıkçası.. Duygularım karışık bu atomizer hakkında. Şöyle denebilir Beşiktaş gibi Gururlu onurlu ikincilikler penodat v2 nin başına gelenler.

Bir tık daha kaliteli çelik, cam tank, değişik afc ler, son kontrolünün daha iyi yapılması ve daha iyi bir likit dolum mantığı olsaydı kutu içeriğle kafaya oynayacak bir atomizer olabilirdi.

aslinda son soyledigin bambaska bir atoyu tarif ediyor ki bu penodat v2 olmaktan cikiyor.
ayrica alan kisiler sorun saymaktan atonun ozune, davranisina, performansina detayli deginemiyorlar. Cunku icim yapana kadar gecen sure sikintili. Basit hatalar gibi gorunmuyor ki, en uzucu nokta da bu.
 
StattQualm Squape A(rise) atomizeri için Klaus ve Todd incelemelerini paylaştılar. Ürünün kendi başlığına bu mesajı yazmıştım ama herkes görsün diye buraya da atayım dedim.

Klaus'un dediklerine göre çıkarılabilir parçalarda oldukça fazla yoğuşma oluyor. Tekli olan afc pinleri daha çok beğenmiş, ikili ve üstü olanlardaki aroma ve boğaz vurumu dengesini pek beğenmemiş, bunu da afc pinlerin çok kısa olmasına bağlıyor, bu afc pinler Skyline gibi uzun olursa çok daha iyi olacağını söylüyor. Sanki pek beğenmemiş gibiydi, şaşırdım doğrusu.

Todd ise, atomizer mtl ve rdl arası çok güzel çalışıyor ama rdl ve dl arasındaki kısım afc pin eksikliğinden kaynaklı çalışmıyor direkt dl olarak çalışıyor dedi. Aroması gerçekten çok iyi dedi. Mtl setup için, boğaz vurumu çok iyi, boğaz vurumu çok sert olarak değil de düzgün ve sağlam veriyor, özellikle coili yukarı kaldırırsanız bir çok atomizerlere göre fark edilebilir şekilde fazla boğaz vurumu oluyor dedi. Mtl'de en çok 2x0.8 afc pini sevdim dedi. DL'de oldukça sesli dedi ve Dvarw DL'ye benzetti ama bu şekilde de çok sevdim dedi. Afc kontrolü ve afc pinleri bakımından Nduro'dan daha çok sevdim dedi.

Ben bu atomizeri sevdim ya. Radarıma girdi. Klonu çıksa alırım. Ama aklıma takılan bir şey var. Ematalized ve anodized alüminyum parçaları nasıl çözecekler merak ediyorum. Herhalde peek parça kullanırlar. Bakalım çıkarsa göreceğiz.
 
Videoların satır başları için çok teşekkürler @CnrSngl :):coffee: Klaus’un pin yorumu hoşuma gitti. AFC’den sonra havanın izlediği yol meselesinden bahsetmiştim. Klaus’un önerisi mantıklı geldi. Esas çözüm, bana göre, aslında mtl ve dl şeklinde iki ayrı atomizer gerekliliği idi. Havanın izlediği yol belki biraz daha kalibre olabilirmiş. SQ ekibi eminim değerlendirmiştir böyle bir şeyi, ama sanırım, ticari olarak bu son şeklini seçmişlerdir.????‍♂️ Magnum opus fırsatı mı kaçtı dedim, yine. ????‍♂️
 
SQ, Klaus’a uzun bir cevap yazmış. Aklımdaki kısım hakkında da bilgi sahibi olmuş oldum. ????:coffee:

Dear Klaus

First of all, thank you very much for your very detailed review. Of course, we took the full length of it, after all we put over a year of development, prototyping and production into the device - apart from the enormous amounts of money. That is why we are always incredibly curious what people think of our product. So, thank you very much for the time you put into the review. Especially because you have invested so much time in the review of our device, I would not want to miss the opportunity to put some time into your video and the statements made in it. Some of the points you mentioned leave a more than questionable aftertaste and as a manufacturer it is my concern to put these points back into perspective:
What we do: In general - we develop rebuildable atomizes. No more, but also no less. They are not pressure chambers with which you must be able to dive 400 meters deep. Nor do we develop ultra-sensitive flux compensators that have to be able to send you back in time and back into the future. Our equipment must work in daily use and give the customer the feeling that he has invested his money right, because the vape experience is right. This is what we do, and we have been doing it with great passion and very successfully for over eight years. And that is of course what we want to be judged by serious reviewers, otherwise it hardly makes sense. Better than the N[duro] The idea of the A[rise] was never to make the N[duro] better. I do not know how you come up with that. We still have fun playing with the systems, combining working elements and technically implementing innovations. That drives us. And we launch products on the market when we and our testers have shining eyes. And of course - at that moment we all think that we have created a masterpiece and we are proud and find it the best device (otherwise we would not bring it to the market). But 'better than the N[duro]... that comes from you and was not our motivation. I would say we have been able to combine the best features of our predecessors, but we're aware that we won't meet all tastes. Personally, I do find it better than the N[duro] for several reasons. Used materials: Because you asked for it suggestively in your video: There is a very simple reason why serious reviewers do not want to discuss melting points of aluminum and stainless steel in vape devices. Probably simply because it is not as relevant as the fact whether you are faster in a 50-meter pool with checked or striped swimming trunks. Vape devices simply don't melt - no matter if aluminum or stainless steel. And it lacks any physical basis to make a judgement here (quote: 'Aluminum is actually suitable for a vape product less than stainless steel'). This is so absurd, I ** almost at a loss for words, and that is spectacular enough. Contrary to what you say, aluminum is very much conductive. The only thing that does not conduct is the surface that we refine. I could go on and on about the properties of ematalized aluminum, but I will simply limit myself to the fact that the product is hardened, especially acid-resistant, abrasion-proof and non-conductive on the surface. All excellent properties for an atomizer interior with moving elements. The ematal process has nothing to do with enamelling or with a DLC coating. If you want to go out into these realms, please keep the facts in mind, otherwise you will confuse your audience and that would be not in our interest. Auxiliary air and air channel: Here I ** very much against your remarks. Basically, it does not matter whether the compression channel is long or short - the intake air is always narrowed where the narrowest point is. The only thing that increases is the intake pressure. If we lengthen the compression channel, then you simply must pull harder while maintaining the same flow, but the air is compressed in the same way as with a short channel. Basic physics. It was important to us that the narrowest point in the system is as close as possible to the coil, because we have had the best experience with this (turbulence in the atomizer chamber, angle of incidence and so on). And about your overzealous guesses regarding auxiliary air (secondary air): it is so obvious that the air does not want to make its way through the clever internal construction of the air channels to the air disc and then through the slots which are on the side of the inner wall of the air channel inlet, below the protruding edge of the air disc and thus seek its way into the atomizer chamber. This is simply - sorry - bullshit. Rather, the air takes the simplest route that is intended for it: directly through the compression (which in any case is infinitely greater than the tolerances in the area of the air disc intake) into the atomizer chamber. From a distance, it is totally untrustworthy that you get so caught up in this idea, but if it is so important to you, we can name it after you. One could almost think that you are imagining something. I take a hint for this from your sentence (quote): 'The 1mm feels a bit more like 1.1'. That is simply ridiculous. Regarding auxiliary air (side air, second air), however, I can both reassure and confirm you: Our device draws side air, and that must be the case: Due to the moving elements such as tank/closing ring or closing ring/deck, it is essential to apply certain tolerances. Otherwise, our device would not move one millimeter and would therefore not function properly. In our opinion, however, the advantages of our system outweigh the disadvantages, whereas with a thread we could of course work towards zero side air. We are absolutely aware that our device can be 'supplied' with side air, but contrary to your idea, the air does not come out from under the air disc, but sneaks into the atomizer chamber between the closing ring, tank and deck. First of all, this has to be the case and does not restrict at all when used properly (device on vape position). And if you really want to pull on a closed device (position O) like a berserker, you will actually feel some side air. If you want to do this and if it makes sense... everybody as he wants. Dear Klaus. We have sent you a fully equipped device free of charge so that you can inform your viewers about the functions, possibilities and scope. Of course, we benefit when people find different views and opinions about our product on the net - as clear as day and hopefully no secret. That is why we give away some of our equipment, offer support to reviewers and promote it through our channels. You benefit from us by getting a relatively expensive product for free and by using our reach. One could speak of a kind of symbiosis in which everyone, including potential customers, benefits. Nevertheless, we have qualitative demands on our reviewers, and when they make hair-raising claims, make scientifically incorrect assertions or make crazy assumptions, we are naturally disappointed and ask ourselves whether the relationship between reviewer and manufacturer makes sense. It is not a problem that you might not like the device, the problem is that during your whole review I constantly had the feeling that you were desperately trying to find something that wasn't thought through, wrong, not good enough, not appropriate ... and therefore these findings should be named by you. Like you just want to be the first one who can start a little scandal and be celebrated for his honest opinion. Please do not misunderstand, I have no problem if you give your personal opinion in your personal conclusion and it turns out unfavorable for us. It is quite possible that you simply do not get along with our device, that you don't like it, that it doesn't fit. This happens all the time and we as a manufacturer have been living with it for eight years. But if you talk about air escaping through the 'click slots' of the air disc, the less good aluminum because of its lower melting point or assumptions about the compression channel, the fun simply stops with me, because that has little to do with the idea of a review and reminds more of personal profiling neurosis. We trust our reviewers to do their work as seriously as we do ours, and not to make themselves important on our backs with really hair-raising assumptions and assertions. But in one point we absolutely agree with you. The SQuape A[rise] needs more air discs and we have been planning this for several weeks. However, we wanted to wait for the feedback from the users first to see what exactly is needed and to be able to respond directly to our customer requests. If you had asked me for more air discs, I could have easily told you. I did the same with other reviewers. They wanted to contact us and get any missing information directly from us. At the end I want to thank you for fulfilling the 90% - even if the video as a whole does not correspond to this mark. We also thank you for your efforts.

Best regards,
Chris Lusser
 
SQ, Klaus’a uzun bir cevap yazmış. Aklımdaki kısım hakkında da bilgi sahibi olmuş oldum. ????:coffee:

Dear Klaus

First of all, thank you very much for your very detailed review. Of course, we took the full length of **, after all we put over a year of development, prototyping and production into the device - apart from the enormous amounts of money. That is why we are always incredibly curious what people think of our product. So, thank you very much for the time you put into the review. Especially because you have invested so much time in the review of our device, I would not want to miss the opportunity to put some time into your video and the statements made in **. Some of the points you mentioned leave a more than questionable aftertaste and as a manufacturer ** is my concern to put these points back into perspective:
What we do: In general - we develop rebuildable atomizes. No more, but also no less. They are not pressure chambers with which you must be able to dive 400 meters deep. Nor do we develop ultra-sensitive flux compensators that have to be able to send you back in time and back into the future. Our equipment must work in daily use and give the customer the feeling that he has invested his money right, because the vape experience is right. This is what we do, and we have been doing ** with great passion and very successfully for over eight years. And that is of course what we want to be judged by serious reviewers, otherwise ** hardly makes sense. Better than the N[duro] The idea of the A[rise] was never to make the N[duro] better. I do not know how you come up with that. We still have fun playing with the systems, combining working elements and technically implementing innovations. That drives us. And we launch products on the market when we and our testers have shining eyes. And of course - at that moment we all think that we have created a masterpiece and we are proud and find ** the best device (otherwise we would not bring ** to the market). But 'better than the N[duro]... that comes from you and was not our motivation. I would say we have been able to combine the best features of our predecessors, but we're aware that we won't meet all tastes. Personally, I do find ** better than the N[duro] for several reasons. Used materials: Because you asked for ** suggestively in your video: There is a very simple reason why serious reviewers do not want to discuss melting points of aluminum and stainless steel in vape devices. Probably simply because ** is not as relevant as the fact whether you are faster in a 50-meter pool with checked or striped swimming trunks. Vape devices simply don't melt - no matter if aluminum or stainless steel. And ** lacks any physical basis to make a judgement here (quote: 'Aluminum is actually suitable for a vape product less than stainless steel'). This is so absurd, I ** almost at a loss for words, and that is spectacular enough. Contrary to what you say, aluminum is very much conductive. The only thing that does not conduct is the surface that we refine. I could go on and on about the properties of ematalized aluminum, but I will simply limit myself to the fact that the product is hardened, especially acid-resistant, abrasion-proof and non-conductive on the surface. All excellent properties for an atomizer interior with moving elements. The ematal process has nothing to do with enamelling or with a DLC coating. If you want to go out into these realms, please keep the facts in mind, otherwise you will confuse your audience and that would be not in our interest. Auxiliary air and air channel: Here I ** very much against your remarks. Basically, ** does not matter whether the compression channel is long or short - the intake air is always narrowed where the narrowest point is. The only thing that increases is the intake pressure. If we lengthen the compression channel, then you simply must pull harder while maintaining the same flow, but the air is compressed in the same way as with a short channel. Basic physics. ** was important to us that the narrowest point in the system is as close as possible to the coil, because we have had the best experience with this (turbulence in the atomizer chamber, angle of incidence and so on). And about your overzealous guesses regarding auxiliary air (secondary air): ** is so obvious that the air does not want to make its way through the clever internal construction of the air channels to the air disc and then through the slots which are on the side of the inner wall of the air channel inlet, below the protruding edge of the air disc and thus seek its way into the atomizer chamber. This is simply - sorry - bullshit. Rather, the air takes the simplest route that is intended for **: directly through the compression (which in any case is infinitely greater than the tolerances in the area of the air disc intake) into the atomizer chamber. From a distance, ** is totally untrustworthy that you get so caught up in this idea, but if ** is so important to you, we can name ** after you. One could almost think that you are imagining something. I take a hint for this from your sentence (quote): 'The 1mm feels a bit more like 1.1'. That is simply ridiculous. Regarding auxiliary air (side air, second air), however, I can both reassure and confirm you: Our device draws side air, and that must be the case: Due to the moving elements such as tank/closing ring or closing ring/deck, ** is essential to apply certain tolerances. Otherwise, our device would not move one millimeter and would therefore not function properly. In our opinion, however, the advantages of our system outweigh the disadvantages, whereas with a thread we could of course work towards zero side air. We are absolutely aware that our device can be 'supplied' with side air, but contrary to your idea, the air does not come out from under the air disc, but sneaks into the atomizer chamber between the closing ring, tank and deck. First of all, this has to be the case and does not restrict at all when used properly (device on vape position). And if you really want to pull on a closed device (position O) like a berserker, you will actually feel some side air. If you want to do this and if ** makes sense... everybody as he wants. Dear Klaus. We have sent you a fully equipped device free of charge so that you can inform your viewers about the functions, possibilities and scope. Of course, we benefit when people find different views and opinions about our product on the net - as clear as day and hopefully no secret. That is why we give away some of our equipment, offer support to reviewers and promote ** through our channels. You benefit from us by getting a relatively expensive product for free and by using our reach. One could speak of a kind of symbiosis in which everyone, including potential customers, benefits. Nevertheless, we have qualitative demands on our reviewers, and when they make hair-raising claims, make scientifically incorrect assertions or make crazy assumptions, we are naturally disappointed and ask ourselves whether the relationship between reviewer and manufacturer makes sense. ** is not a problem that you might not like the device, the problem is that during your whole review I constantly had the feeling that you were desperately trying to find something that wasn't thought through, wrong, not good enough, not appropriate ... and therefore these findings should be named by you. Like you just want to be the first one who can start a little scandal and be celebrated for his honest opinion. Please do not misunderstand, I have no problem if you give your personal opinion in your personal conclusion and ** turns out unfavorable for us. ** is quite possible that you simply do not get along with our device, that you don't like **, that ** doesn't fit. This happens all the time and we as a manufacturer have been living with ** for eight years. But if you talk about air escaping through the 'click slots' of the air disc, the less good aluminum because of its lower melting point or assumptions about the compression channel, the fun simply stops with me, because that has little to do with the idea of a review and reminds more of personal profiling neurosis. We trust our reviewers to do their work as seriously as we do ours, and not to make themselves important on our backs with really hair-raising assumptions and assertions. But in one point we absolutely agree with you. The SQuape A[rise] needs more air discs and we have been planning this for several weeks. However, we wanted to wait for the feedback from the users first to see what exactly is needed and to be able to respond directly to our customer requests. If you had asked me for more air discs, I could have easily told you. I did the same with other reviewers. They wanted to contact us and get any missing information directly from us. At the end I want to thank you for fulfilling the 90% - even if the video as a whole does not correspond to this mark. We also thank you for your efforts.

Best regards,
Chris Lusser
İngilizcem çok iyi olmasa da %90'ını anladım. Sağolasın üstat.
Yalnız iyi gömmüşler Klaus'u, yazan arkadaş belli ki atarlı biri ????
İşin özü; afc pinler neyse onu veriyor, saçma sapan konuşma kaçak maçak yok, asıl senin önerin saçma demiş ve alüminyum parçalar erir falan demişsin, öyle bir dünya yok adamı hasta etme uleyn demiş... galiba... ????
Yeni afc pinler de feedback'lere göre gelecekmiş.
 
İngilizcem çok iyi olmasa da %90'ını anladım. Sağolasın üstat.
Yalnız iyi gömmüşler Klaus'u, yazan arkadaş belli ki atarlı biri ????
İşin özü; afc pinler neyse onu veriyor, saçma sapan konuşma kaçak maçak yok, asıl senin önerin saçma demiş ve alüminyum parçalar erir falan demişsin, öyle bir dünya yok adamı hasta etme uleyn demiş... galiba... ????
Yeni afc pinler de feedback'lere göre gelecekmiş.
Videoyu seyretmemiştim, geçen muhabbete bakarak seyretmek istedim. ???? Ağır bir şekilde yazıldığı net!

DL platformuna mtl yapılmış gibi şüphem vardı (havanın izlediği yol ve geniş olması meselesi). Klaus’un benzer bir şeyden bahsettiğini sanıp pin önerisini mantıklı bulmuştum: farklı, hatta bambaşka, şeyler geçmiş arada galiba. ???? Neyse ben aradığım cevabı buldum ve sevindim. ???? Nduro’da da aynı muhabbetin baca versiyonu vardı: Chris o konuyu böyle iyi açıklamamıştı. Biz denedik ve fark göremedik demişti sadece.????‍♂️
 
SXK yaparsa $5 daha dusuk cikar, kupon vs ile $25 civarina kapatiriz ama air disklerin altinda oring falan var mi? yoksa ses yapar bunlar. ben detayli incelemedim bunu.
 
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